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Episode 215

A slow two weeks of news, but the mystery behind DC Rebirth is afoot as the latest announcement from DC prompts a recap of the Watchmen references we have currently seen in the books. We review All-Star Batman #6, Batman #14 and Detective Comics #948. Stick around for some great conversation prompted by the listeners and be sure to leave your comments below!


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  • Sterling Brittian

    First you pronounced my last name right so yay. Second off it is my real name so no not a villian lol. I heard of the podcast through Facebook from a page I liked recommending the Everybody Loves Drake podcast. So I know my first point will seem random but I’m listing it first because it connects to a few points. I am still waiting for Batwomans sister to appear in Rebirth. I remember reading an interview where she is supposed to appear in Detective Comics. But with Batwoman getting her own comic I wonder if she’ll appear as an eventual supporting character in Batwoman or be part of the team in Detective. I also kinda wonder the same thing about their cousin Hawkfire. I already knew Dr. October was trans before reading Detective from some interviews I read. I am part of the LGBT community and think they did a fantastic job with introducing her. It wasn’t the was obvious that she was trans except for the way she talked. I also think they drew her was amazing. She looked feminine except for the jaw. My only problem with her is when she was introduced. In the same interviews they say she may pop up in Batwoman but she’s going to be focused on in Detective. For Batwoman’s support I know Julia Pennyworth will be her Alfred and I’m guessing that it’s Renee on the cover of the first issue so maybe she’ll be part of it as well. Since Alice is supposed to be in Detective I’m hoping they decide to put her in Batwoman and make her part of the supporting cast cause I am a fan of her. Except for it just being focused on Batman and Batwoman I don’t know how I feel if it’s a good back door for her own comic. Storywise I think it’s good but it feels like it’s supposed to be filler between the big arcs. I am intrigued by Colony Prime and who he is and if he’ll be a villain in Batwoman. All-Star Batman I really liked. I was not a fan of the last arc but I do like this one a lot better.

    • Ian Miller

      Batwoman seems to be the place for forgotten characters – Julia Pennyworth, Bette Kane, and Beth/Alice have all been hinted/confirmed they will appear in the series. Very excited to see them again!

      I think Colony Prime will be defeated in this two-part arc, since the main villain of Batwoman’s first arc seems to be someone named “Knife.”

  • Ian Miller

    The villains were cool in All-Star Batman, particularly the Firefly/Killer Moth pairing, as a fellow fan of Batgirl Year One with Stella. 🙂 However, I enjoyed the montage of the villains more in King’s Batman/Catwoman romance story.

    I have seen all but the most recent Bourne movies, but I only like the one with Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner, for Dustin’s clarification as a non-Marvel fan 😉 ). The only car chase I remember liking is the one from Jack Reacher, with Tom Cruise.

    I think the situation with Duke and his code name is really bad. It’s leading to an unfocused fanbase, and a very focused anti-fanbase right now. My read is that Snyder had very specific plans for Duke (primarily for him to either be Robin, like in the Future’s End Batman story, or to be Lark, like his hallucinations/future story in other Batman stories) that were overtaken by the We Are Robin title, and now he’s frustrated and dragging out the origin story so that he has full creative control on it. But it’s hurting the character – we need a fully baked chicken leg, here!

    I firmly stand by my comments on Luke in Burnside. He did almost nothing, even wearing his armor for a date for no good reason. (Also! Since Steph know’s Luke’s identity, and talked about Luke as a boyfriend with Batgirl, and knows Bruce and Tim’s identities, I’m going to state that Steph also knows Babs’ identity!!!! Ahahaha!)

    Nightwing’s first arc (interrupted by Night of the Dull Monsters) was clearly to clean up the plotlines Seeley and King had left hanging from their run on Grayson. Not the greatest, but I thought Seeley did a good job with the characters, particularly Babs’s guest spots. I hope he has more of both Babs and Damian soon!

    Of course the comment was meant to provoke a response, Stella! Why comment, otherwise? But I am with you as far as Babs/Dick being endgame shipping. I like Starfire quite a bit, but I thought that the issue where Dick showed up in Starfire’s solo series showed why they can’t work longterm – Dick is always too distracted, and Starfire is always too involved with everyone else. Only someone like Babs or Helena could hold his attention, I believe. (Also, when you bring up Dick’s playboy tendencies, Stella, you should also bring up Alia from Grayson, who he tangled with in the second issue – maybe not quite as fast as the girl on the plane – sounds like a new thriller! – but I wasn’t a fan of that either.)

  • Gerry Green

    Regarding Dr. October, I saw the headline of the Bleeding Cool article before I read the comic so I knew she was transgender. If I hadn’t I’m sure I would have missed the references. Characters morphing and renaming themselves is pretty common in comics so the idea of having a ‘pupal stage’ and ‘deadname’ could be interpreted in other ways. I’m glad to see that she is going to be a fully formed character and not just in there as a token.

    My comments in the last episode about being promised something I wasn’t getting were directed at Detective Comics. My disappointment centers around Tim being off the team. I know we are going to be getting him back as part of the Watchman story but the Batwoman, Tim, Steph, Clayface, and Cass team up had so many possibilities I’m just disappointed it isn’t being explored. The current group is pretty meh for me in comparison.

    In terms of my Batman concerns, issue 15 puts Selina’s murderous problem to rest. Whew. I totally agree with the BatCat shipping, they are soulmates that are too broken to sustain a relationship. Issues 14 and 15 were my favorite issues in a very long time. You guys brought up Talia in your discussion and I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on how Talia fits into the Bruce/Selina mix.

    I am much older than that young whippersnapper Stella and saw Dark Shadows after school during its original run. I am a little more than half way through the 1000 Barnabas episodes on DVD. Gold Key did Dark Shadows comics from 1969 to 1976. Dynamite did a run from 2011 through 2013 including a Vampirella crossover mini. Also in 2013 they did a Barnabas Year One mini. The licensing rights are out there and I have the Batman 66 mashup all plotted out. DC should have their people talk to my people, though I’ll have to get some people. Sounds like Chris K has some good ideas too so just say the word and we are on it!

    Gotham Academy getting cancelled? I can’t hear you LA LA LA. Love the theories Ian Prime brings up about Amy and all your discussion about Gotham Academy. When it is working it is my favorite comic out of all I read. Don’t tell Palmiotti.

    Loved your discussion on Mother Panic and the slow-burn development in narrative. It is the Shyamalanization of storytelling – force a second viewing so you can see the movie you didn’t realize you were seeing the first time.

    Looking forward to the next podcast for your discussion on the above, as well as more about chimpanzee video shenanigans, and to hear Stella say “Shyamalanization”.

  • Joel Haas

    Been listening for a long time and kept putting off posting.

    First – thanks for the podcasts and content. You help make my LA commute bearable. Knowing there is a new episode coming out helps me make sure to keep my ‘to read’ pile churning and small.

    Second – Dustin – congratulations on the addition to your family.

    Third – regarding the way a Trans character was introduced – I also did not catch it. But then, I am a straight guy and not at all in that community. Using code words/language in the way that was done makes complete sense, though. Adding characters from the LBGTQ community should be done exactly the same as adding other characters- organically. In that way, Doctor October’s introduction was genuine. But at the same time, the previous character that was brought up (the name escapes me) that immediately identified as ‘I used to be trans’ could be just as genuine. Some people feel the need to announce their history in real life, just as in comics, so either method works for me, just as long as it is consistent with the character.

    Fourth – I like the addition of Abstain. I had wondered if/when Neutral was actually a ‘did not read.’ Good add.

    Finally, for the 250th episode, I had a suggestion. Many of your listeners look for new Bat-material and ask for recommendations so for #250, how about a TBUCP Favorite 50 list? This would take some work, but if each of you put together your favorite 50 bat stories or graphic novels and averaged them out, you could talk (briefly) about the collective top 50 list. That way we could find out what Ed likes beyond Snyder and Miller. 🙂 It would be a long episode and I think might spur many of us to go out and get some more books. Also, I would love to hear it.

    Anyway, thanks again for the podcast and happy (belated) 2017,
    -Joel Haas

  • Dustin Fritschel

    From John W:

    the backups of DKIII are half de-thawed chicken wings… you know since they are smaller

  • Dustin Fritschel

    From Bob Moriaty:

    Dustin, I’m totally with you on makin’ up your own superlatives… or the opposite… and I plan to use half de-thawed chicken leg when I refer to something that my score is up on, but only to the minimum of “not disliked,” which I believe is what your are trying to communicate. Our co-hosts might try to make you feel like a crazy-person, but I understood;) (nuthin’ but love intended to all hosts;))

    I admit I’m behind in general on my bat books but now that we’ve got a couple arcs under the belt for most books and characters, I wanted to just weigh in that in general I think there’s a lot to like about the state of Gotham since Rebirth. We do have some quicker stories and payoffs, despite the talk about “slowburn” character building. I think it’s important to be careful what you ask for in some cases. This time last year we were epically slow-burning through Jim Gordon’s stint as the official batman and basicaly sludging through a Batman and Robin eternal that held very little payoff. I think a few quick hits jump-starting characters in Detective and introducing some interesting elements with the Gotham twins in Batman allow us to gain some new material and people to work around while on a line-wide level they’re all likely gearing up to tell the Watchmen-related story. What I’m meanderingly trying to say is, when there’s too many words and not enough fists we all tend to get antsy, and when it’s a shock and awe campaign we get flustered that Bruce and Selina aren’t progressing psychologically. It’s natural. I think there’s an interesting balance across the line as far as a little of this, a little of that for different types of readers.

    I will say I’ve been a little let down in a Greater Gotham sense. I was so into Batgirl of Burnside and Babs arc didn’t catch me as well, and the Nightwing first arc is a far cry from how excellent Grayson was.

    Anyways, long time no check in. Always appreciate your discussion!

  • Jessica Nilo Alves

    Hey, guys! I’ve been listening to the podcast for a while and felt like I should leave a comment now that Dustin has invited us, listeners, to tell how we’ve come across the podcast. For me, it was back when I was going through a mild depression and the Batman comics had become my solace. I was living in another country for a short period and the loneliness that always comes with being out of your environment had caught up with me. The friends that I had were by no means comic book readers, so I went looking for Batman related podcasts; it was a way of “talking” about the subject with someone, even though I was not part of the interaction. I found the channel by searching for Nightwing on iTunes and finding the late Taking Flight podcast, and from there I went to the website, where I found the other podcasts and here I am.
    Going all the way back to whether or not Batman has dipped into a Lazarus Pit, in The Ressurection of Ra’s al Ghul storyline he does fall into what Ra’s believes to be “the source, the prototype of the Lazarus Pits”. If memory doesn’t fail me, this is one of the reasons used by Morrison for his craziness in RIP – besides the whole thögal thing and the isolation chamber.
    About Dr. October, I hadn’t realized she was transgender while reading the issue, but that might be due to me not being that familiar with LGBTQ vocabulary in English despite being part of the community. I am always for minority characters being portrayed as more than that, so I do like the way they only gave the smallest of clues about her being trans.
    Since I’m writing this comment after the release of Batman #15, I feel like I should comment on how amazing the callback to Year One and Catwoman’s first appearance, with the different drawing styles and all. And boy do I feel relieved that it wasn’t her that committed mass murder.

  • Ian Miller

    Forgot to mention that though Ed and other reviewers have thought that Jacob Kane’s turn into villainy was a bit out of left field and not very satisfying. While I can’t argue that something is satisfying to someone else, obviously ;), I do think that Rucka intended to take Jacob and Kate’s relationship in a darker direction than Blackman and Williams took it in the new 52 (somewhat amusingly, since n52 was marked by cycnism and darkness in general, but this choice was a bit less dark than what I think is clearly Rucka’s intent in the original, pre-52 series). The unexplained betrayal of Kate by Jacob in the issue of Beth’s survival is similar to Jacob’s secrets with the Colony – and I hope very much that Bennett addresses Beth’s history as well as Kate’s in the upcoming solo series.

    Furthermore, I would argue that Jacob isn’t a pure villain – he’s clearly gone too far in operating on American soil with a full fledged lethal military strike, but he’s never shown using his organization for selfish purposes, instead seeking to make the world a safer, better place – a place where, as he says in Tec #938, what happened to his own family never happens to another family. A goal Batman himself shares, though they disagree as to acceptable consequences and methods.

  • Brentley Ellenburg

    First time poster, long time listener. Hey all, first of all, thank you so much for the time each of you put into this show! It is truly appreciated and helps me keep up on all the comic news I miss. I don’t have enough time right now to read all the TBU titles, so you guys keep the gaps filled in for me.
    As far as the transgender reference goes, I did not even have a clue and I think that’s the way it should be. I want to enjoy characters for their character in the comics. I don’t typically agree with nontraditional type relationships, but I try not to judge those situations either. I understand everyone is their own person, and if a writer wants to go down that path I think that’s fine. However, I don’t think we need it thrown into our faces. If that’s how a character is, it should be normal life for them without having to be so upfront about it. It’s just who they are.
    Now, I want to bring up something that has been bothering me for a while during our current comic titles. Does it not bother anyone else that we have the bat family without Robin, AGAIN! I really would love to see Batman and Robin interact on a regular basis. This has bothered me for some time now. I love the family aspect and all the characters we are getting. However, these writers just seem to be bent on not writing Robin. Or maybe it’s DC, who knows. I also would love to see more commissioner Gordon. Basically, I would love to see things go back to a little more traditional, but keep the current characters as well.
    Lastly, you guys had some discussion about All Star Batman last episode. While I love the title so far, I have a lot of trouble understanding where the book is going each month. I felt like the Two Face run was all over the place, and after I read the first Mr. Freeze book I felt the same way. Maybe it’s just my feeble mind!
    Anyhow, I have been enjoying all the books so far! The New 52 was starting to get old fast near the end. This fresh take has been great.
    Keep up the good work and God Bless!