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Episode 225

Comics are the topic of discussion as we dive into the recent release of Dark Days: The Forge #1. We also review Dark Knight III: The Master Race #9, Detective Comics #958 and Batman #24. What character does Ed and Dustin dislike from the 90’s? Has Stella’s ultimate shipper dream come true? Find out about all of this and more. Be sure to leave your thoughts below.


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  • Dustin Fritschel

    From Paul:

    Hi guys, Just wanted to say as always thanks for the Podcasts. Been listening since the New 52 launched and enjoyed every minute.

    Recently I dropped all of my comics due to finances and have listened to the podcast to keep up to date. I must say that I’m not all that fussed about what I’ve missed with Batman and Detective.

    When Batman started with Rebirth, I found the stories interesting but completely agree with you that Tom King’s stories seems to trail off. As much as Snyder’s complexity can be quite annoying at times, he does write a complete story even if it does last for years and have countless flash backs and flash forwards.

    Having got into Batman with the new 52 and then subsequently read backwards through Morrison’s run, Damian was my Robin so I was glad that Rebirth’s Detective would have Tim in it as I could discover the character for myself.

    Low and behold, my greatest annoyance with Rebirth came about with Detective which started off as a family book but lost one of the key members of the family straight away in Tim. I feel this decision really encapsulates the Rebirth experience for me with books promising lots but not really delivering. Now we are 4-5 story arcs in and the trend seems to keep continuing, in my opinion.

    I feel the key books – Batman and Detective do seem to have lost their way whilst other Bat titles like Red Hood, Supersons and Trinity do seem to be clearer, simpler and as a result more focused.

    I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on this?

    Thanks as always for all the hard work with the podcast. It is much appreciated.

  • Gerry Green

    I am loving the current Batman run and I hope Bruce courts and marries Selina. I’d love to read stories of step-bat-mom Selina integrating into the Batfamily. Trying to stay out of getting into trouble with the Sirens. Convincing the Bats she is trustworthy. I think like Dustin said, Bruce is hearing his Father’s voice from The Button and trying to figure out what it means for a man like him to truly be happy. Embracing that he really is Batman at heart. And she is Catwoman at heart.

    And yes, this should be line wide. There are many stories that could be told about how this relationship affects a lot of different characters. Super Sons issues where Damian talks things out with Jon and maybe spends an arc in Bludhaven with Dick. Sirens mini series’. Batgirl, Bat Woman, Stephanie and Tim (when he comes back). Some stories where the new relationship is in the foreground, others where it is just interesting background.Could be good background for Doomsday Clock.

    Nothing lasts forever but it could have a year or two of plots come out of it. If this is what they are doing they would need an exit strategy. We can’t have it end with something horrible happening to Selina and Bruce is so very very sad. Worst case scenario. I’d be disappointed if it turns out to be a tease – Selina says no and Bruce goes back to happily tormenting Penguin.I wonder what Bane’s up to?

    I am so into this, I can’t even tell you.

    • Ian Miller

      Bane is up to a lot of awesome stuff – you should check out Bane: Conquest!

      I agree that seeing Bruce and Selina actually get married would be a really interesting story. I want it – but I also don’t think DC is serious about it.

  • Ian Miller

    Regarding Dark Knight 3 – I think you are all pretty much spot on. There’s distinct branding and schedulling problems with this title, though the final work is at least polished enough in art that it’s pretty to look at. However, it feels much too cheerful to me to actually be a Dark Knight Returns book. Frank Miller made a lot of noise in the middle of the series about doing his own sequel to DKR, since he felt Azzarello was doing more of the driving in DK3, but I agree that the series should have stopped after Dark Knight Returns. Especially All-Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder. 🙂

    Batman and Catwoman’s marriage/engagement will, I think, completely depend on how well Tom King sells, and how much the fans embrace it. I think fan response to the Selina proposal has been overwhelmingly positive – but I hope DC takes that to mean fans are actually interested in making this a long term thing, like Lois and Clark, rather than another Batwoman-type cancellation of relationship. But this really means we have to ask the question: can a married or even engaged Batman really be DC’s plan for the next several years? I have a hard time seeing them being willing to even try it, even though it’s what I would like.

    But I’m buying Detective and not Batman, so I guess I don’t really have a say. 🙂

    As for things, not just the proposal, being Linewide – I completely agree that it’s the best course of action, but I don’t know if we’re going to see a O’Neil/Dixon/Grant/Moench or Morrison-style line-wide coordination of the Batfamily for a while. Snyder just doesn’t play well with other writers enough to make it work, which is why even when DC tried really hard to make everyone play with him, he did stuff like Zero Year which ate up well over a year of the Batman titles, and then Superheavy, which even though I liked it, really disrupted all of the other Batfamily titles. You need a powerful editorial or writerly voice like O’Neil or Morrison, and then other writers who can make it work. I think for now, we’re still in a time when each main Batman title is pretty independent of the others – Detective, Batman, and All-Star Batman are all theoritically in the same universe, but none of them really talks to the others. Each of these main titles can spin out into other titles, like Nightwing, Birds of Prey, etc, but we’re not in a time when there’s one driving voice of the Batman line, I think.

    As for Metal (including Dark Days) – I think it’s a well done issue leading to a well done event, but I really hate events in general, and nothing in this makes it seem like it’s going to be significantly different. The only thing I even slightly care about is Zinda, Lady Blackhawk, coming back. Hopefully she rejoins the Birds of Prey as she deserves!

    I appreciate Dustin’s intellectual honesty in appreciating the quality of this episode’s Detective Comics even if he doesn’t care about Azrael – well done! However, I’m with Stella – I think Azrael is a very interesting character, particularly in the way Tynion’s used him to explore issues of faith and spirituality in The Victim Syndicate and issue #950. I hope this arc follows up on that – plus, there’s something so charming about the way Azrael gets so bombastic, just like he used to in Knightfall – “KNOW THAT MEN CALL YOU DEFILER!” and waving around his burning sword.

  • Corbin Pool

    Hey guys, it’s been awhile since I’ve contributed to the comments section. So with all the talk of Azrael last episode, it got me thinking… I’ve had an idea for years of a mini series taking place in the Flashpoint universe and Jason Todd taking up that mantle. With him being a recovered drug addict and a priest in that world, I thought it would create for some interesting opportunities in storytelling with the personal conflict. Of course, he’d have the guns of Sin and Salvation as opposed to the swords, and you could even blend Azrael’s look with Jason’s Arkham Knight look. Would doing that make the Azrael dynamic more interesting for you guys, or is there nothing that can be done that can save the idea of Azrael in your mind?
    On an unrelated note; What comic (of any universe or publisher) has moved you on an emotional level like no other? My all time favorite comic is Vertigo’s “Daytripper” by Fabio Moon and Gabriel Bá. That comic changed my outlook on life, and I feel like more people should read it.
    By the time I am hearing your response to this, I’ll be the proud father of a baby girl (my first), and was wondering if there are any great female led stories directed at young girls that you would recommend… obviously, it’ll be awhile before she will be reading, but I wanted to get a good start on some comics for her. I know Stella will recommend Batgirl: Year One, and I’m happy to say I own a digital copy, and plan on getting a physical copy for her. If there are any other ideas, I’d love to hear them.

    • Ian Miller

      Congratulations, Corbin! BQM’s run on Batgirl with Steph in the cowl is also really great for young girls, I think. Others: Mike Maihack’s Cleopatra in Space, Shannon and Dean Hale’s Rapunzel’s Revenge and Calamity Jack series, the current run of All-New Wolverine starring Laura, Supergirl: Cosmic Adventures in the 8th Grade.

      As for emotional comics, definitely Steph’s run as Batgirl, particularly Batgirl Rising and the final issue. Tom King’s Vision and The Omega Men. Daredevil: Born Again. Sandman: The Kindly Ones. Alias by Bendis. Wonder Woman: Land of the Death and Mission’s End by Rucka.