Steph and Ian are back for a Batman: Wayne Family Adventures #159-161 Webtoon Review! It’s getting close to the end of the season, and they are eager to see how this Joker saga is going to turn out!

Steph: Ian! It feels like it’s been so long! How are you liking hosting the Batman Universe Podcast?

Ian: It’s a really fun gig – BJ is a wonderful co-host, and I’m having a really awesome time covering Batman audio dramas and random comics that I’ve never read before from decades ago! How’s the Batman Universe Comics Podcast for you?

Steph: So fun, though we miss you bunches! You know what one of our favorite books is on the cast?

Ian: I’ve heard it’s Absolute Batman, aka Big Rectangle Man 😄

Steph: Well, yes, but also Batman: Wayne Family Adventures!

Ian: HOORAY! A great comic for sure!

Steph: And I think we’re getting near the end of season 3. Wanna talk with me about it?

Ian: Let’s review it!

Steph: Well, episode #158 ended with Cass and Steph becoming Batgirls again!

Ian: With some absolutely KILLER flashbacks!

Steph: However, most of 159 – With a Bang was about Catwoman and Harley talking to Penguin about stopping his turf-war with Black Mask.

Ian: I think it’s fun how CRC Payne is clearly such a fan of classic team-ups like Gotham City Sirens, and uses them in ways that I think are pretty organic.

Steph: I would agree.
Just as their about to strike a ceasefire, Joker comes in, bombing the place, with everyone being saved by Ivy, who happens to show up just in time for one reason.
I will say that in my opinion, I think this is one of the weaker episodes in the season.
Not a lot happens, there’s not much interpersonal chatter, and the whole thing takes place at the Iceberg Lounge.

Ian: I would agree. The goal of the episode – stop Penguin from fighting Black Mask – is lost completely, so it makes our heroes look like failures, and no real character development is given.

Steph: I would agree. And there’s isn’t much really to discuss or talk about in this episode, other than it is nice seeing the Sirens working together, and Joker is finding ways to pull Penguin’s strings

Ian: Yup! On to our next episode!

Steph: But in episode #160 – The Battle Begins, we see Tim, the team lead, frustrated at this setback. Also, there are three bombers/hostages, Firefly and Killer Moth are wreaking havoc again, and Black Mask and Penguin are facing off at the docks.
Poor Tim!

Ian: I like how they layout both the final battle for Tim, and Tim’s thought processes. A very nice use of Red Robin as tactician and strategist!

Steph: I was thinking since this is the final stretch, we might not have many more relationship moments, but Dick swoops in and does a great job talking Tim off the metaphorical ledge.
Especially the part about how Tim, unlike Bruce, was trained to work with a team, but also to think like Batman; a combination Joker wouldn’t see coming. Do you agree with this?

Ian: Dick being there for his brothers is such a nicely consistent character thing for him, and nice development for how he couldn’t balance it early in season 1!
I think Tim’s ability to work with the family, instead of trying to do everything himself is a big plus, and makes perfect sense!

Steph: And it works. Tim is able to delegate everyone to their strengths.
What do you think about Azrael getting the bomber/hostage detail?
I thought that was an odd choice, though I guess I don’t know what I’d do with Azrael.

Ian: I think it’s fun – Azrael hasn’t had ANY previous character moments, unlike every other character in the team, so it’s nice to see him getting a serious task!

Steph: Indeed he does.

Ian:  Tim and Steph’s connection over the Batgirls reclaiming their costumes was really nice – especially since last time Tim saw Steph as Batgirl, it was during a very hard time in his life, and he didn’t accept her very graciously. Him trusting Steph so fully this time is very nice growth

AND we have a hint of the final plan with Tim privately contacting Duke! Gotta setup the dominos to fall later!

Steph: Oh, right! I put that in my notes, too!
I wonder what he said, because we sure don’t find out any time soon.

Ian: We shall see!

Steph: It’s a real small moment, too. Something you could forget until you go back and read.
Episode 161 – Heating Up, starts off with the something the Bats should have probably done from the start – put a flyer and a range fighter in the field.
So Batwing and Bluebird take Killer Moth out in a minute. I didn’t really like how long the family had struggled up until now to take him out.

Ian: Yeah, Killer Moth really shouldn’t be that big a problem – even though he lasts for 9 issues of Batgirl Year One! (Though to be fair, Batgirl was brand new, as Year One points out 🙂 )

Steph: Yeah. And if the whole family has been after him this whole time…I felt that was unbelievable. But he’s out of play now. And it SEEMS like Firefly is out as well, or at least injured, thanks to Nightwing.

Ian: Firefly is a lot more dangerous, so it makes sense to me that he lasts longer in this fight than Killer Moth.

Steph: That’s true.

Ian: I thought Bluebird, who is great with tech and gadgets, taking out Killer Moth, who relies on his own tech and gadgets, was a great choice!
Very nice character foiling

Steph: It was a very nice shot.
We learn that Joker is at Wayne Enterprises and has taken two security guards hostage, and that Signal’s team, along with Tim and Damian, are helping with the fires.
Tim learns that a hospital is in the fire’s path, and they need to do more than just rescue and evacuate. What do you think his plan is?

Ian: Well, I’ve been waiting for Tim to call on Mr. Freeze for a while, so that’s my guess of where he’s going! Fire vs Ice? Robert Frost would be proud!

Steph: lol. Calling on villains for help is the road less traveled by.

Ian: I mean, the use of the Sirens indicates that it’s semi-regular
(and yes, I insist that Ivy at least is a villain)

Steph: Are there any frost or water heroes?

Ian: Oh, yes! There’s Ice, partner of Fire in the JLI, and Mera, queen of Atlantis can manipulate water like a waterbender from Avatar the Last Airbender!
(though currently in the comics Arthur, the Aquaman, has gotten that power due to the Absolute Power mix-up)

Steph: 🌊
Tim has so many secrets!
He checks in on the Batgirls who are en route to the docks, but have to make a quick stop to meet with…LADY SHIVA!! TBC

Ian: I really love that Steph is stepping up as a leader herself – coming up with plans now that she has confidence in herself after Babs and Cass showed her she doesn’t need to be afraid of messing up anymore.

Steph: That coupled with Dick pointing out that messing up doesn’t make you less perfect for the job really made this a lovely little section of comics, despite the more dry sections.
Overall, I really did like these, even if they’re not as charming as the first 2 seasons, and even the rest of this season.

Ian: This is definitely a “setting up the endgame” section of the story, but there’s a lot of nice character interactions in 160 and 161, and I like seeing stuff like Tim and Mr. Freeze starting to pay off!

Steph: What are you looking forward in the next (and final!) 6 episodes?
I, of course, would love some Bat/Cat celebratory hugging.

Ian: I’m most excited to see how Steph’s plan works of course! I think it will be quite interesting to see how CRC Payne and the art team can pay off all the characters they’ve been juggling!

Steph: Oh, and we must know what secret plans Tim has been hatching!

Ian: all the secret plans!

Steph: Well, that’s all I’ve got for now! Same Bat time, Same Bat Place for our next review?

Ian: Same Bat time, same Bat place!

Oh man! Can you believe it? Batman: Wayne Family Adventures #165-167 Season 3 is over! Steph and Ian could barely contain themselves, so they had to sit down together and talk about all their feelings!

Steph: Oh man, Ian…today is a such a bitter sweet day!!
We’re reviewing the LAST 3 episodes of Batman: Wayne Family Adventures!!!

Ian: LAST THREE!!!!
We got this!

Steph: Okay, well, let’s start with 165 – Fighting For…which I’ll be honest, I couldn’t read that title without Mulan’s “A Girl Worth Fighting For” running through my head

Ian: I would not be surprised if that was in CRC’s mind too haha.

Steph: On the Wayne Enterprises building, Joker is taunting Batman and he’s falling for it, punching and beating Joker up.
All the while, Joker is laughing.

Ian: I felt this was a bit underwhelming

Steph: I’m not sure why, but this scene didn’t hit me emotionally as much as I feel it should have, though Joker laughing did make me mad.

Ian: I know Joker’s never been a big hand to hand guy
but it felt like Joker just got beat up, and then Batman was silly and turned his back on Joker, and then Joker stabs Batman. Too many mistakes

Steph: I agree. This wasn’t the “epic face off” it was building up to be. I mean, we’ve been watching Batman slowly making his way to WE for a few episodes now, and this was just…meh.

Ian: I had a similar feeling when we see Freeze fighting the fire – it feels off handed, not the payoff to Tim’s carefully laid plan

Steph: Yeah. We don’t see much of that. I think even seeing a larger view of how much help Freeze is being would be have been more effective.
I did enjoy seeing Fire-Fly being taken out by Nightwing and Red Hood.

Ian: yes – a big shot of the fire going out with a big Freeze wave would have been cool!
PUN INTENDED

Steph: lol.
So, now we have Batman is a sitch (stabbed on the roof, surrounded by goons), Fire-Fly finally out of commission, and the fires under control.

Ian: And the gang war at the docks too!

Steph: Now in episode 166 – Never Alone, we still have two bombs active, Oswald and his men are still angry, and no one knows about Batman yet, thinking he’s got Joker handled.

Ian: Steph is still in charge – sending Black Mask with wounded Ivy and Harley – smart use of resources accomplishing multiple goals!

Steph: I feel like Ivy’s vines are a little too deus ex machina.
I mean…they’re on a dock…it’s mostly water underneath them. I wasn’t thrilled with all the powerful vines doing all the things.

Ian: shoulda been seaweed! 😄

Steph: agree. Good and slimy.
Then suddenly Shiva comes and helps knock out Penguins goons.
I did enjoy Shiva and Catwoman pinning Penguin down and discussing how maiming is not killing.
I miss hiss hiss, scratch scratch Selina.

Ian: Penguin giving up was perfectly in character, and makes it so all Steph’s hard work to break the Black Mask gang wasn’t for nothing!
All in all, Steph and Cass really came out on top of this arc – Cass finding a strong path forward with her mother that doesn’t feel as passive as her current title sometimes does, and Steph taking control of her life and accomplishing wonders.
And then, of course, Tim’s OTHER plan pays off, as Signal comes out of invisibility to punch Joker and give Batman a hand!

Steph: Yes! He told Signal to keep an eye on Batman and step in if there was trouble!
Something Batman “didn’t want” and Joker doesn’t expect.

Ian: A very Tim plan!

Steph: They take out the goons together, but lose sight of Joker, who escapes.
I did like that Batman relents and leans (literally) on Signal. And the fight scenes here were fun.

Ian: Yes, this was definitely an improvement on last episode in terms of the Batman section

Steph: However, Oracle, who has just cracked Calculator’s files, knows where Joker is hiding – in the caves under Arkham Asylum.

Ian: Babs coming in clutch as usual!

Steph: Which leads us to the final episode of the season! Episode 167 – Tomorrow

Ian: FINALE TIME!

Steph: Now, all the hostages/bombers have been saved, all that is left is Joker. Because the tunnels are maze like, much of the family is stationed at the tunnel entrances to block Joker’s escape.
We get one more character moment here where Jason admits that if he sees Joker, he can’t promise not to kill him. So he stays back with Dick, hoping that Joker doesn’t come that way.

Ian: And Bruce listening to Jason was a great moment of character development too!

Steph: What did you think of Nightwing staying with Red Hood because he wasn’t there when Joker killed Robin?

Ian: I think it’s another beat of Dick being there for his brothers – works pretty well for me

Steph: It seemed a little too sad to me. Like…I don’t think Dick should be feeling guilt for that. I’m glad he want’s to be there for his brother, but I hope he isn’t carrying that guilt.
But maybe it was just a gesture.

Ian: I hope it’s just a gesture – Dick was quite busy at the time of A Death In the Family

Steph: I just bought that! I need to read it!
But, I digress. The rest of the fam makes it to Joker’s hideout where he is frantically looking through a box.
He tries to defend himself with a weapon from the box, but he is quickly overpowered and he surrenders.
At first everyone is surprised, but then Joker fights with mind games – his forte.
In his mind, Batman admits he is scared, that he knows he can lose everyone, but unlike the start of the story, he won’t let that have power over him anymore.
I really liked his reference to One Bad Day, and that Every One Bad Day has a tomorrow.

Ian: How do you feel Batman’s speech works against Joker’s threat?

Steph: I think he said it best “don’t turn your back on me”
He thrives on Batman’s attention. And being all he thinks about.
But that’s a power Batman can choose for Joker to have.
If he walks away, Joker is powerless.

Ian: I really liked the turned back thing – both as trust in his family and rejection of Joker’s power
but I think the speech itself doesn’t quite work

Steph: Well, I don’t think the speech is for Joker
It’s for Bruce
Joker doesn’t care what Batman says or does.
As long as he pays attention to him.

Ian: I think in a world where Joker has killed Jason before, as well as crippled Barbara, it’s always going to be unsatisfying for the reader unless he actually dies – and he can never die because writers and readers like Batman and Joker fighting too much.
WFA is trying really hard, but I’m not sure there is a satisfying solution in any story really

Steph: I would agree.
It’s hard to believe in justice when something like that goes unpunished.
What do you think of the massive sleepover at the Manor?
I noticed Jason go the only bed.

Ian: I thought it was very fun, though I kinda wish they’d had a lot longer to give each character more personality and fallout from the extremely intense trial they’ve all been through

Steph: I agree. An epilogue episode would have been perfect.
Though I did love that Alfred and Bruce had a moment, and they did give a few of the characters a final word/jab.

Ian: I could tell CRC was really working to try to fit everything in, but it felt a bit squished

Steph: But I would have loved a final epilogue episode. Sometimes there are after – season minis. Maybe we’ll get one or two here.

Ian: I also am not wholly convinced we needed two full confrontations with the Joker – on the roof and in the tunnels

Steph: I think it was okay. The roof was Batman trying one more time to do it alone and failing, and the tunnels was showing how easy it was with the whole family.
But, I agree it does kind of mess with the climax – denouement momentum.
But, what are our overall feelings about the series and the ending?

Ian: Well, I still think that trying to do a case-fic doesn’t play to WFA’s format strengths
Even though CRC and the art team did a really strong job for the most part, other than the Nightwing fight, none of the action really stands out

Steph: I agree. I really liked it, but I feel WFA’s strength is in short stories and character building.

Ian: The character moments were really, really excellent, but I think you could have gotten there without necessarily needing the Joker overall storyline
My idea for how WFA would do a more serialized storyline would be to expand on stuff like the Tim being kidnapped storyline – dive into how characters grow and change within the series itself, rather than necessarily needing a villain plot.

Steph: Or having the villain be a background character.

Ian: Yeah
That being said – I wouldn’t say season 3 is a failure. Just not an unmixed success

Steph: You know, in recent comics, my favorite story was in “gasp!” Batman The Brave and The Bold where Fire Fly kidnaps Tim and Damian and then realizes that neither are the Robin he wants revenge on.

Ian: That was quite a fun little story – and yes, I think that’s exactly the type of story that you could build on in WFA!

Steph: It was hilarious and worthy of WFA. Those are the kinds of stories I enjoy and love seeing CRS Payne do. I’m very happy she tried this one, and I think it was fine, but I miss the gags, relationships, and character building in modern comics, and I get my fix in WFA.

Ian: Yep! I hope season 4, if we get one (and I hope we do!), will go back to that stronger balance. Also I hope that we get season 3 in trade format so I can keep reading it to my nieces and nephews!

Steph: I’d love some mini-arcs

Ian: Indeed!

Steph: Oh, so it doesn’t seem like I’m ragging on CRC, lots of authors struggle with longer or ongoing stories. This, since it was so long, had to build up a lot, and it’s very hard to make a payoff worth that amount of time.
I don’t know if I “blame” CRC as much as the format.

Ian: Yeah, and the jump from 3 episode arcs at most to over 50 episodes is a BIG change

Steph: For sure. Overall, I say, I love it, as always, but that what I loved most, and where the season’s strength was, was in the characters, not the story.

Ian: Completely agree. Hoping for more!

Steph: Well, this has been fun, Ian. I can’t wait to do this again next season!

Ian: Same! Thanks so much for doing this with me!